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The Director's Cut

On August 25, 2001, the day after ...Or Forever Hold Your Peace screened at the WorldFest Houston International Film Festival, the film's director, Ken August, sat down for an interview. Joining him in the lobby of The Red Lion Hotel were Laura and Pam, as well as Lee and Ciera. All four had attended the screening the night before. Despite being tired, and despite the loud piano music in the background, Ken graciously answered our questions about Ty Treadway, the movie and filmmaking, among other things.

Q: Is this your first feature length film?
A: Yeah, the first one I directed. I've written and sold one before this called Fall. It was written four or five years ago and sold about a year ago. This (...Or Forever Hold Your Peace) is the first full length feature that I've directed.

Q: Did you like directing?
A: Loved it, loved it. I had to produce it, unfortunately, as well which is not something I typically want to do. But since the money came mostly through me or to me through other people, there wasn't much choice. It was very hectic and a lot to do for the first time. You have to be careful because you can be doing it right and you get half way through and you're all out of money.

Q: Did you and Ty know each other before you worked on ...Or Forever Hold Your Peace?

A: No. I met Ty for the first time when he showed up at my door for the audition. First time I met him and he was not on One Life to Live yet. We cast him... actually, I wanted to cast the five main people first. If those four or five people didn't have a relationship by the time I started shooting, we were gonna be f***ed. I cast the first four or five people, get them out together, go out and have a few drinks a couple nights in a row. People start to... it's a bonding question and it's a lot easier to make that relationship real. Ty, he was pretty much the only guy for that role (Gabe). Because we had a bunch of people come in and read for his character and a few people up for the other characters. He was the only one that came close. If he didn't show up at that point in time, I don't know what would have happened because if that character doesn't pull it off, once again the movie suffers. That character's got way too many speeches, way too much to say.

Q: Why did you cast the people that you did. Was there something about them?
A: Um, well, you know, I had them read together. And I don't know how normal that is. I kept bringing them in. Because they had to relate to the four other people. So we kept bringing them in in groups and anyone that stood out or if I thought maybe someone was holding them back we'd just put them back into a different group. So for Ty's particular character there had to be a leadership quality... there had to be that take charge kind of a quality that he pretty much had that other people didn't. Some people read the outline of what the character was supposed to be and they went too far with the stoner aspect. Other people went too far the other way. And he brought some of everything the character needed. He was pretty easy to cast. Everybody else was cast pretty much from their audition with the exception of the Captain character. I knew Keith Coogan. I brought him in and told him I just finished a script. He came in with his girlfriend, sat on the floor and read the script in an hour and he said, "Okay, I'll do it." He was originally going to be Josh and I went through the auditions and didn't have a Captain. Couldn't find a Captain and liked one other guy for Josh. Basically I spoke to Keith, and I know Keith and his tremendous ability. I could change his character every day and he would just go with it and be great. He said he doesn't usually get to play guys with an edge and so I cast him as Captain and he was great.

Q: We noticed in the program for the festival that the film was shot in Video SP.
A: The film was projected last night on Video Sp. It was shot on 16 mm. The film was shot on 16 but this theater can't project at 16. So we had to transfer onto a tape that they could project. Which technically didn't bother me because 16 mm sound is mono. We mixed it in stereo and once you put it on tape the stereo comes back. The reason for shooting in 16 was strictly financial. You always, if you have the funds, shoot in 35. All the main theater houses shoot in 35. If you do 16, if you're gonna go to video or you're gonna go to cable, you don't ever have to blow it up to 35. If you show it in any other theater or art house theater, usually you blow it up. Basically the question was are we gonna get a theatrical release? I don't know but any company that wants to pick up the film can afford it a lot easier than I can.

Q: We have a pictures from Soap Opera Digest from the movie, and we're not sure which scene it was. We don't recognize it from the film. How much had to be cut?
A: I know exactly what you're talking about! That is actually the choking scene. And that picture is from rehearsal. What happened was, in that scene... I had those guys rehearsing... Keith, I don't know if you guys have seen him before, but he's worked on bigger budget movies and he had told me that they rehearsed more for this than any other movie he's worked on. Which was because of me. I called rehearsals constantly, but only for those main four or five. When we finally got onto the stage, we had been rehearsing in other places before that, by the time we got onto the stage, we had to walk ourselves through some of the bigger action scenes. Obviously we weren't going to have a big stunt coordinator. What we had was, how do we make it interesting without someone swinging from this far away (gestures with his arm) and, "Ahhh!" You know, that's ridiculous. So, basically we would walk through all of that and that's where that shot came from. As far as how much was cut out, on a low budget movie, unfortunately we didn't have the ability to shoot everything. So a lot of times if you get it, that's it. As opposed to if you get it, let's do it three more times just to make sure. If you have more money, you say, "Let's do it one more time and try something different." We didn't have that luxury so we basically did a lot of stuff in one take. Not nearly as many scenes got cut out. We did have to work some magic in certain scenes, like the coming out of the closet scene was unbelievably tough to cut. A lot of the shots didn't match. We let her (Pepper Carlson as Robin) run with it. She was so emotional we let her run with it. She was great. The only problem was each shot we took, she'd finish one line, and she'd be on the other side of the room. You can't cut to her because all of a sudden she's not on that side of the room anymore. That would be an obvious jump cut. You have to do things like find a little sliver of film where you see her legs walk across in front of the guy in the next shot. Things like that, and all of a sudden she's back over here where you need her to be. We had to work magic like that but we couldn't afford to waste film.

Q: You went to Ohio University. Did you go for film school?
A: Actually, I played hockey. I certainly would not say that when I was there I had a career in mind. It was mostly athletics. But the second half of Junior year I started writing a script. And I just had a lot of shit on my mind. Junior year I just started typing and I had no idea what a proper script format was. It ended up being 84 pages, what I thought was 84 pages. Someone else had taken it to read and gave it to some person I didn't know who ran a theater company. That person randomly called me and said, "I loved it." But I had a lot of hockey scenes in there. He said, "I wanna try and make it into a play and I can't do that. You've gotta put it in proper format and get the coffee stains off page one." I put it into proper format and it was one hundred and eighty four pages. That's a three hour comedy so I went ahead and chose to not even attempt to sell it. Unless I come already established with a huge name, I'm gonna get laughed out the door. I basically started the next one... actually I figured, "In three years when I backpack around Europe, I'll come up with the next one." Which almost didn't happen. I actually, in Italy on the train, came up with the next one. I wrote it when I was in San Diego. Sold that script.

Q: How did you get into directing?
A: My old roommate got me into directing. When I first came out to Los Angeles, he... I had this script I hadn't sold yet called Fall and he said, "Well, do you want to raise the money for it?" I thought, what am I gonna do even if we raise the money for it? He asked, "Well, do you see this when you write?" I said, "Yeah, I see everything." I wouldn't direct anybody else's script but I see what I write as I write it. That's directing. Well, that's part of directing. Ideally, that's directing. However, making a film, especially of this size, is also about putting out fires. I had an idea of how I wanted to direct it and as soon as we got onto the set, I had to crumple it up and throw it away. There was fire after fire after fire you have to put out. You just can't do it the same way you want to do it with the budget we were on. So we tried to raise money to make the other one. In the meantime I was in the Director's Guild working on other movies and just kind of hung out behind the scenes for four years. I learned what I could but still, I don't think I've become comfortable enough to direct someone else's script.

Q: Are you currently working on a script?
A: The next one is called The American Dream. It is about, every time I leave Los Angeles, I'll go home and see my parents, I find that people who are not involved in the entertainment business are strangely fascinated by it. They get the glorified version. Everybody thinks that it hit people out of nowhere, like Matt Damon and Ben Affleck. It fascinates them. I think a big reason it fascinates them is because they see a movie and think, "You know what, I could do that." They started to wonder what would happen if they tried that. The American Dream is designed to show you what probably would happen. We're working on that now. We'll see how quickly I get motivated.

Q: Are you only interested in film, or have you considered directing for television and theater?
A: To be honest with you, I hadn't really given it much thought passed the writing until I stumbled into directing. I don't know, as far as television... as far as television, artistically I would have to say no. I would definitely prefer film. You can get away... there's less restrictions. Although once you get to the big Hollywood scenario, you're back to a lot of restrictions. But, especially in independent film, you get to say things you normally wouldn't get to say. In television it's much more formulated. It's, okay, you have to finish act one by this time. That's not my style. My style when I write is usually I know a general idea of the story and a more specific idea of the characters. There's plenty of things the characters say or do in "...Or Forever" that I had no idea was going to happen. But, you know, in reality, money in television is fantastic. So, if you get the opportunity to work on something like that and get the leeway that they can give you, that would be great. But I think I'm far away from there because it's tough to get what you want in television.

Q: You have a production company. Is Ty involved in that with you?
A: Never Grow Old Productions technically is me. I am the only member of that. It certainly limits the arguments. (Lee asks something about stock) I own one hundred percent stock. However, I don't know whether or not that company will be the one that does The American Dream. I generally... the only aspect of producing that I... the only reason for me to want to produce at all is that there's nobody else in control and you can't beat that. Otherwise, there's too much hands on producing type stuff that has to be done to also be worried about the script and the directing. I didn't have much of a choice. So, Never Grow Old Productions will still exist. I'll see how much further I take it. I might keep it a company and who knows, Ty and I might start another one to do The American Dream and we might just keep both companies. But Ty and I definitely plan on doing the next one. But, uh, I have no idea whether it will be either one of those companies producing the next movie nor do I have any idea if you're gonna be able to hear a word I'm saying on this tape (indicates loud piano music). I apologize for the voice... the late night drinking. You girls can at least call me up to clarify anything you can't hear. Not a problem. You won't get the same voice, but that's my problem.

Q: What films or directors inspired you to write?
A: I don't have a typical filmmaker response for that. Normally you ask someone that question and they'll rattle off a bunch of names and titles, like Citizen Kane and "Orson Welles did this." You know what? Wrong generation for me. I mean, don't get me wrong. I can appreciate the earlier films. But most of my favorite movies... I grew up watching comedies. Movies like Caddyshack. Movies like Stripes. Loved it. Absolutely loved it. Mel Brooks movies. Love them. As far as people I admire, like I said, I didn't really plan to be directing. So I didn't necessarily really look up to a certain director. As far as admiring people like Spielberg, he catches flak for being so commercial, but you know what? His movies stand out. Scorcese is obviously fantastic, as well as Coppola. Coppola, also had a great idea when he was younger, wanting to get around the whole main Hollywood system and start, basically, a little artist's community called, "Zoetrope." But, those guys, as far as directors go, unbelievable. But Lucas... George Lucas. His movies, people won't list as the all time greatest movies but yet I grew up on Star Wars. I've seen every one of those to the point where I'll see The Phantom Menace and I don't care what kind of problems it has 'cause I'll be as giddy as a ten year old. As soon as those words start coming down! Indiana Jones movies are fantastic. I wouldn't even attempt to put myself in a category with those guys, but that's what I grew up on.

Q: If you could pick one film that you could have written and directed, what would it be?
A: Wow, that's a good one. You might run outta tape before I come up with an answer for that. One specific film? You know, I... here we go... I have no idea what to say! You know, I could probably have an answer for you before we're done, but this is really tough because I love those movies that I mentioned but I can't see anything I could have done that would be any better. I love those films so much that I can't put myself in that position. I can't say Star Wars because that was a different era, and a great film, although that would've been a fun one to do. First of all, that would've been a nice one to do because this movie (...Or Forever Hold Your Peace) wouldn't have been a low budget movie. But, um... The Godfather. Maybe The Godfather. Once again, you do The Godfather and bam! You've got a lot to live up to. So I don't know. I don't know if I can say I wish I would've done any of them. But maybe The Godfather. I'll change that answer possibly in fifteen minutes.

Q: You were born in Long Island. How did you make your way to California?
A: Live in Long Island. Went to college in Ohio, which was basically wanting to get away from everything. Long Island was pretty nice but very... very Jappy (Jewish American princess). Most of my friends, my female friends, would fall into that category. I'll make it all nice, cause I don't mean in a derogatory way. But I was looking around and saying, "Everybody is the same." I started checking out colleges and I looked at Ohio. I was looking at big brick buildings and green grass and guys sitting under trees reading. When I pictured college, that was what I saw. So I went there to get a break and I knew I wasn't going back, but I didn't want to say that. Once that whole script thing happened, with my friend showing it to someone else, I kind of enjoyed the idea of writing. I liked the idea of not having a nine to five job, and also I like to work out of my house. Or on a beach somewhere with a laptop. I didn't know if it was reality, but I knew the idea of it sounded good. I knew there was no way I was gonna attempt to do that at my parents' place, because I would have gone crazy and taken them all down with me. So, I said if I'm gonna do something, if I'm gonna try something, I'm gonna have to do it right now. I headed out to San Diego, wrote the script, got a job on a movie in Los Angeles. I actually knew when I was gonna backpack around Europe I was gonna come back and move to California and try to get a job. Try to write a script, and I figured I'd bartend. I got bored in San Diego. Beautiful area but I needed a change.. So I figured I'd move to L.A. and do what we have to do in L.A. And I haven't looked back. Not much reason to leave. Although, when I become successful enough, I will be going somewhere. I don't know... but I've got a couple ideas. Hawaii, maybe. Laptop, couple of poofy drinks with little umbrellas.

Q: Did you grow up writing, or was it a talent you discovered later in life?
A: Junior year of college was my first real attempt at any sort of writing. I can say I didn't keep a journal growing up or anything like that. I can say I wrote, strange memory, but Freshman year of college in some English class, we had to write term papers. The topic was to pick a question, and then the term paper would be finding out the answer to the question. And Freshman year of college my question was, "Should I rush for a fraternity or not?" I knew I wasn't going to do that, because, first of all, I played hockey. That was enough of a fraternity. Second of all, most of my friends were in fraternities, but I have my own theories on that which are not all that complimentary. I went ahead and interviewed a lot of people, went to some great parties. But after finishing the paper, people read it and they were laughing out loud. That was actually fun to write. That was the first idea I had that writing can be fun. Up until that point, it had been work. Someone said you have to write a four or five page paper, and I would try to talk my way out of it. That was the first one, and I still never had any idea that I might eventually do it for a living until Junior year when I started writing a script. That was not for a class or anything else. It was just to empty out my head.

Q: Now that you've written scripts, do you have interest in other types of writing? Like novels, for instance?
A: I don't think I could write a novel. I don't think I have the ability to write a novel. I love writing dialogue. I think with every script I'll write most of the aspects, like plot and character, will improve. But I enjoy writing dialogue, which from what I hear is rare. I'm not talking quality of the dialogue, that's for the audience to decide. As far as enjoying writing dialogue, most writers I know hate it. A lot of times people don't hate it, but they wrote their story and the dialogue will just get you to whatever point you want to get to. So what happens is you have your storyline, and you're going from A to B to C, but the characters aren't natural. You say, "Well, I need her upset here, so add a line where she gets pissed off." It comes off that way. The audience isn't stupid and it comes off that way. I love writing dialogue a lot. And in this script it went in a direction I didn't know it was going to go in.